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COMBAT: How does someone get accepted into the Shaolin Temple?

SHIFU SHI YANZI: Basically it is very difficult to become a monk. When I was fifteen years old I went to the Shaolin Temple but I couldn't get in, it isn't easy so you have to want it very much. You stay (outside) two, three days, maybe a week and you kneel (as the monks go by) to try and attract their attention. If nobody wants you, then you stay on the outside. The reason it's difficult is because they do not know you, the monks have no reason to believe in you just because you turn up one day. If you want a Shaolin Master to accept you, it takes time. You have to try and stay and prove to the monks that you are a good person.

COMBAT: How long did you have to stay "outside" before you were accepted?

SHIFU YANZI: I was lucky. I was accepted into the temple around sixteen months later. When you are first accepted you are not a monk, you are a Shaolin disciple. You can wear the monks robes but when your Master knows your character really well, he will test you, and then introduce you as a Monk.

COMBAT: Why were you so determined to become a monk?

SHIFU YANZI: When I was a child I really liked sports, my favourite was Kung Fu. My mother is a Buddhist, so she was pleased, but like all mothers she was worried that I was going to the Temple at such a young age. At first she tried to persuade me not to go, I have three sisters and four brothers in my family, so I wanted to go out and gain experience and I knew that I wanted to do Kung Fu for the rest of my life, I wanted to be a success at it. I told her that if I didn't go, then I didn't want to do anything (laughs). I told her believe me, I will be a success, so she trusted me and let me go.

COMBAT: Are your parents happy now that you have proved to be a success?

SHIFU YANZI: Yes, they're very happy, but success is not about having a good life, it is a state of mind, if in your pocket you are rich, but in your mind you are empty, this is no good. Similarly if you are rich but have no health, then this is not good either. For me, health, a strong body, energy, and an understanding, a relationship with other people and the universe, this is important. This is the Ch'an Buddhist philosophy.

COMBAT: Your mother was worried that life would be hard for you. From what we've seen and heard, the Shaolin way can seem quite punishing. Is that really necessary?

SHIFU YANZI: Technological advances don't really matter with Kung Fu, it's about training your body and mind. You must be hard because Kung Fu training requires hard work and perseverance, this is a Shaolin secret. I don't normally talk about this (laughs) but I do tell my students that if you have a strong will you can persevere. You must also have a good Master to teach you. This is really important.

COMBAT: Do a lot of students or "disciples" quit before they become monks?

SHIFU YANZI: It doesn't happen very much, because the Master chooses the students and he is very experienced. When he sees you for the first time, he is already 70% certain whether you are right or not. Afterwards he will spend time with you and then he will know 100%. That's why it is so strict. If you are chosen to be a disciple the Master doesn't want to waste his energy or his time. If he teaches you, then you should be a success, if not he is not a good master. That is why it is not easy to become a monk. You need to let the master know and trust you, you need to open your heart and be honest, so you must study hard and be of good character.

COMBAT: How long does it take to go from being a disciple to a genuine monk?

SHIFU YANZI: This depends on the student, there are no rules on exactly how long the time should be. How you do, how quickly you improve and gain the masters trust, it is down to you, the master just waits. It is like the apple, in the spring we are all waiting but in the Autumn we can eat, but nobody wants to eat before the fruit is ripe. When you are ready he will tell you. You can only know this through experience. A monk doesn't just sit in the mountains and meditate, monks understand everything. He may not travel to London, but he knows that the basic things are the same, he knows this through Buddhist knowledge.

COMBAT: We do have this image of the meditating monk, blissfully ignorant of the world outside the temple.

SHIFU YANZI: I learnt from Buddhist knowledge that you should also "prove it", go outside, use your mind, to ask. If you need to prove, or understand something, you need to feel it for yourself. (Shi Yanzi picks up a can of Sprite) I can tell you that this drink tastes really nice, but you still cannot understand the taste 100%. Isn't it better if you try it for yourself? You cannot explain the taste purely with language, you need to use your tongue and taste it yourself. The Kung Fu of Buddhism is to try and to do, you should not just read books, or watch films, if you only study and don't do, then it is not real, it is nothing.

COMBAT: Part of the Buddhist philosophy is that you can help create your external surroundings by your personal actions, if you are good, good things will happen.

SHIFU YANZI: You are talking of Karma. I think everyone should believe in Karma. For example, if you put the good seed into the ground it will grow strong, but you cannot reap a bad seed. If you do good then good will come to you, but for Ch'an Buddhists this is not our ultimate goal, this is only a small aspect. The bigger goal is when you do a good thing and don't want anything in return, it doesn't matter, you just do it. You see an old lady fall down, you simply help her. If you did it because you wanted good karma for yourself, that's selfish. Ch'an Buddhism is from your heart, it's genuine. If you understand Buddhist philosophy you must use it to develop your mind, you cannot allow Buddhist law to control you, you must be flexible. Why are we so technologically advanced now? Because people use their minds. Buddhist knowledge is to be used to help people.

COMBAT: What do the monks think of their portrayal in the numerous films about them?

SHIFU YANZI: Basically when you watch the films, if you know Kung Fu, then you will know what is real and what is special effects, but the philosophy they try to show is mostly right. Kung fu is not used for fighting, the first reason is to make your body strong, to give you health and energy, to practice Buddhism and to help people. In the temple the master will ask you why you learn Martial Arts and if you say it's because you want to fight, and if you have no patience, and are not of good character, then it will not be possible for you to be a success. If your interest is purely external and you are not a good person, then nobody will teach you. In China it is a cultural thing, the good teacher would never teach a student of bad character.

COMBAT: Is there a fear that with all the tourist trips to the Temple that the tradition will be lost and you will become Westernised?

SHIFU YANZI: I don't think so. My master is the Shaolin Temple Abbot (Shi Yongxin) and he has a good plan to ensure the Shaolin cultural tradition continues. In the future I believe we will not have people living outside the Shaolin Temple or business people, or restaurants. We will build a small village for all these people and keep the Shaolin Temple, outside and inside, a large area, very quiet, very green, something like a natural park. So I think things will get better in the future, not worse. The Shaolin Temple is very famous and world-wide there is only one. For this reason tourists want to visit and we open the doors during the daytime, to keep the people happy. In Ch'an Buddhism we can train anytime, not just the day.

COMBAT: The Abbot is now sending Monks like yourself out into the world, what is the reason behind this?

SHIFU YANZI: The Shaolin Temple is very old and although the knowledge is very old, it is still popular and strong. It is proven, and people like it, but one Temple is not enough for people to learn from. We want the Shaolin to grow, so more people can have knowledge, this is the Buddhist Temple's goal. You cannot keep a good thing to yourself and not teach anyone. When you are experienced, and qualified to teach, you should teach. In China we have the monks who can teach, but not in the West, and in the Temple not many monks can speak good English. When I joined the Temple I also decided that I would study English, I had some basic teaching when I was a child at school, so I continued with this, used my free time to study English. It was the same as when I left my family, I said to my Master that I wanted to go out. I had a lot of experience, but it was not enough, I needed to show people what I had learned. I know that many people want to learn, but don't get the chance because they cannot find a good Master, and I understand this. My Master also felt it was the right time and that Europe was a good place to send me because many people from Europe visit the Temple and want to study and I had an understanding of English. Also I had more Kung Fu experience than most of the monks my age because I fought a lot at competitions.

COMBAT: Can you tell us more about your fight experiences?

SHIFU YANZI: In China I went to twelve competitions, some smaller provincial competitions but also eight national competitions and I was the champion every time. I also fought in invitation only international contests twice, and won both. I fought many different types of people. When I went to some competitions other competitors knew me and didn't want to fight, but I didn't mind because we have a saying - "friendship comes first, being a champion second". Everyone wants to be a champion but if it causes arguments, makes enemies, and you want to kill everyone if you lose, this is no good, no-one will want to teach you again. I studied very hard and made rapid progress. After I had been studying for only three months I went to the city competition and became the champion, beating a man who had been studying five years. This is why in the Temple I became famous for my Sanshou.

COMBAT: Is competition important to the Shaolin way?

SHIFU YANZI: The importance depends on what you like (to do). For my skill, I do Chinese Sanshou and Qi Gong, I learned three or four techniques, steel head, steel arm, these sort of techniques because they would help my fighting techniques. So my "special" skill is fighting. I became a genuine monk in 1989 and I was allowed "inside" in 1985. When I went to my first competition I felt that maybe my master would not agree with me fighting but I really wanted the experience of real fighting. I couldn't pick a fight, that would be wrong! Competition was friendly, reasonable, and with certain rules and I wanted to be a champion, only so I could improve what I had learnt. In Chinese Martial Arts the heart is Sanshou, the free-fighting. If you do not have the right combination of body and mind, what we call Ying-Yang, you will lose the balance. I also entered competitions to prove my skills and to gain more experience which increased my confidence. By doing this my skills that I had learnt in the Shaolin Temple, all the hard training and practice over many years had been tested and proved. This makes me feel that I have not wasted my years. It is like a bottle, if it is half empty you will hear the water splashing about inside noisily when you shake it, if it is full you will hear nothing, if you are good you do not need to go shouting about it, telling everyone that you are the best.

COMBAT: As you mentioned previously you are also known for your feats of Qi Gong, how do you develop this internal energy?

SHIFU YANZI: In China there are different styles (of Qi Gong). Some are only for health, energy, metabolism, and in Shaolin we have seventy two Qi Gong styles, but Kung Fu Qi Gong is special because you try to make the energy come to your naval, all the chi, then you try to make this chi help your arts. To understand this you must understand how to inhale and exhale properly but some people don't believe in the principles of Qi Gong. Your body is like a factory devoted to making you work well. How does it do this? The most important thing is the breathing because you need the air, the Chinese call this chi, it has different meanings, and it is really important that you learn to breathe properly. For example, when you punch, nobody should inhale, you exhale. When you practice you should inhale and exhale very slowly, to make energy, and then be fast to use this energy. Practice slow, but use fast.

COMBAT: How important is your mental state to the development of chi energy?

SHIFU YANZI: You should know the physical make-up of your body, the tendons, where blood flows, your ligaments, acupuncture points, you should know these basic things, then you can practice Qi Gong, but again, it is very important that you have a good master to teach you because it is internal, you cannot see it. For my skill I practice "steel jacket" so I can demonstrate my Qi Gong. I can use a tree stump to hit my stomach, my ribs, you can kick or punch me, it doesn't matter. This is to show people my internal chi, how it protects me. For Kung Fu you need both the internal and external. Many people concentrate on the internal, they don't want the external training because it is hard, but this way you cannot make the Kung Fu Qi Gong good, if you want to be professional or use it for self defence.

COMBAT: What about the principle of chi energy transfer?

SHIFU YANZI: Many people don't believe in this "special" power because technology cannot explain Qi Gong. You should believe in this because you have chi in your body, just like you have electricity. You use your mind to control this energy. You believe your blood flows all around your body, why can't you believe that the energy can also do the same? If you believe it can work you can make it help you, but some people you can demonstrate for them many times, they simply do not want to believe. In the Temple my Master taught me some medicinal applications of Qi Gong and I have helped with back problems with chi massage through calm focus. I also helped a man who had problems with his throat and could not be operated on, my chi application had a very quick reaction and now he can swallow and talk far easier.

COMBAT: Do you practice the iron palm technique?

SHIFU YANZI: Yes, but I practice my fist, my arm and my leg just as much, but I have not practiced iron palm for a long time because it is not very useful to me in competition. I use my fist much more, and when I want to block I use my arm or leg, you need to strengthen these areas, and your ribs and stomach, so I practice steel jacket, I choose the styles that help my fighting techniques. This way, eventhough the competitions are hard, I win without any real problems.

COMBAT: Why do the monks practice with the stone weights?

SHIFU YANZI: Well, many of the practices we call traditional, it is because we didnŐt have the nice gyms and weights like you have now, but in the original sense this equipment was stone, like a ball, or a log, and the monks used to help develop strength, but not in the same sense as bodybuilding. The Chinese call this "live" power, not "dead" power. This means that the power is flexible, you need "fast" power for Kung Fu, it is not the same power as you would need to push a car.

COMBAT: Some people suggest that the Shaolin Kung Fu is now simply Modern Wushu, how would you answer that?

SHIFU YANZI: Of course Shaolin is traditional, but you can still call it Shaolin Wushu, or Shaolin Kung Fu. All people in China use the word Wushu, it doesn't mean that it is simply in fashion at the moment, but if you say "Shaolin Wushu" people will know it is traditional. In the same way Tai Chi is called Wushu, but you know what Tai Chi is like. In China, when you say "I've learnt Wushu", they ask "which style have you learnt?" I would reply Chinese Sanshou. In the West, people associate Wushu with the popularity of the nice movements, the acrobatic gymnastics, because generally we haven't explained that the word has other meanings, just like English words can have more than one meaning. The Shaolin is traditional, with all its forms, and much of the "nice" movements that you see have their roots in the traditional forms.

COMBAT: What are your long term plans for the development of Shaolin Kung Fu in England?

SHIFU YANZI: That's an important question. In 1998 the Abbot decided to send a monk to England (Shi Yanzi) to see if it was feasible or not. In the Temple I taught students from Europe. It's not simply me saying I am good, in the Temple I respect everyone, and it is important that I am a good person, as well as having good skills. Now that I'm here I work really hard and now I feel very happy because there is a lot of interest in what I am doing. Now is the right time to promote Shaolin culture, it's not just about Kung Fu, it's about spiritual development as well. If you want to start teaching people this, however, you cannot start by saying "I want to teach your mind", you have to capture their interest first. Most people like Martial Arts, just like I did when I was growing up. Now that I have been a champion and proven my art, championships do not interest me, what interests me is improving my mind.

COMBAT: How important is this development, beyond a competitive career?

SHIFU YANZI: It was a big question in my mind, what to do after I became a champion. I wanted to know why we monks really learn the Martial Arts, I told my Master "I feel I am nothing" and this question seemed to please him and he gave me a book to read, he had been keeping it for me a long time and felt that it was the right time to give it to me. So I read about Buddhism from the beginning and then I understood that the practice of the Martial Arts helps you to understand Ch'an Buddhism, because the goal is the same. For example to do Martial Arts you need to be brave, how can you defend yourself if you are scared? This is also the first goal of Buddhism, not to be afraid, to overcome this fear. Fear of death, for example. You are born, you age, you die, this is normal, it is the cycle for everyone. When you accept this, you will remain calm. When you are calm, everything becomes clear, you can learn.

COMBAT: How have you found the response from your English students?

SHIFU YANZI: I feel my students really like the teaching. I have been here almost two years, but I only teach the basics, and only now will I let their knowledge grow to a new stage because now they are nearly ready. They are happy to learn meditation or Buddhist philosophy. I tell them to forget Buddhism as a religion, think of it as a philosophy, this will help you in your life, it will give you confidence, peace, and contentment. I also stress hard training, because without it you will not become a success. The hardest thing is the basics. You spend a lot of time stretching, kicking, punching, like when you build a building, you need to make the foundations very strong. You must prepare all the materials. When this preparation is done, then the building process will be very quick. I have students who have come to me and said that they are "advanced" but here they will still be beginners. I tell them not to worry about losing face.

COMBAT: What do you see as your long-term goal?

SHIFU YANZI: The plan in London is to build a Temple Centre, the first in Europe. We have a property and I hope this will open soon (possibly the summer), and I will invite you to the opening. It will be a full time centre, where we hope to do charity work, teach Buddhism, Chinese culture, Martial Arts, painting, and the Chinese language. We will give people Qi Gong healing, it will be a full cultural centre.

COMBAT: We look forward to being at the opening.

SHIFU YANZI: Thank you. I hope that the readers of Combat can understand my basic English and that they have some benefit from this interview.